Rethinking ADHD: Parenting, Stigma, and Neurodivergent Affirming Practice with Rebecca Challoner

In this episode, neurodivergent advocate, educator, and founder of My Spirited Child and the National PEKE Centre, Rebecca Challoner, joins Peta to explore what it really means to live and parent, with ADHD.

Rebecca shares her journey from discovering her own diagnosis after her children’s, to founding two groundbreaking organisations built on neurodivergent-affirming principles. She unpacks the myths surrounding ADHD, how stigma still shapes everyday experiences, and why traditional “discipline” doesn’t work for neurodivergent kids.

Connect:

Rebecca Challoner:

Facebook: facebook.com/rebeccalchalloner

Instagram: instagram.com/rebeccalchalloner

Peta Hooke:

Instagram: @petahooke

Email: icantstandpodcast@gmail.com

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Episode Transcript:

Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the I Can't Stand Podcast, the show that explores what it's like to live with a disability. My name's Peta Hooke, I have cerebral palsy and I'm your host. Each week, I sit down with remarkable people whose lived experiences and perspectives are reshaping how disability is understood, not just within our community, but by non disabled people too. This week, I'm joined by Rebecca Challoner, an award winning advocate, educator, and the powerhouse behind My Spirited Child. Rebecca's story as a neurodivergent woman, wife and mum of two ADHDers has fueled her mission to build a more affirming world for neurodivergent kids and families. From organizing the biggest ADHD event in the Southern Hemisphere to challenging outdated ideas about ADHD itself, Rebecca is unapologetically leading change and doing it her way without any further ado. Let's get into it.

Speaker 2: My name is Rebecca Challoner. I'm the founder and director of My Spirited Child and the National PEKE Centers. I'm an ADHD and dyslexic adult, and I spend a lot of my time trying to help and support and educate others in similar situations.

Speaker 1: It's such a pleasure to have you here. Thank you so much for your time. And I know that so many of my listeners will relate to your life experience. I'm sitting here as well as a dyslexic person, so you know, we see life very differently, and it's always a pleasure to talk to someone who truly understands talk to me about But your ADHD. I know your wife, and you're a mum of two ADHDers as well. You both your kids have ADHD. How has that shaped both your personal identity and your identity at work.

Speaker 2: Completely in every way? So yes, my whole family is ADHD. And most of what I do was originally set up because I wanted to support other parents, primarily because there was just when I started in this industry sort of over fifteen years ago, there was nothing for ADHD parents. There was no support, and even less for ADHD adults themselves. So I just really wanted to support other people who were experiencing the same challenges that I was as an ADHD adult raising ADHD children. There's so much misinformation out there about ADHD and there. When I first started, there was even more and so much stigma. And I know a lot well, I knew as a parent that a lot of parents just felt really alone and really just unsupported, and a lot of the time, I think, you know, knowledge is power, and the more we know, the more we can help ourselves, help our children, find our community as well. And I just really wanted to help everyone else but also help myself in doing that as well.

Speaker 1: I mean, sorry, take me back, because I really want to understand, because obviously you're doing amazing things now, Rebecca, but obviously you started I'm presuming with your own diagnosis first. Or did your children get their diagnosis and then you found out you had ADHD? What was that like?

Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it was my eldest son got diagnosed first, and that would be he's nearly twenty now, so when he was little, and then my youngest son got diagnosed, and then I got diagnosed, so I was sort of later than them. But the thing was, I always knew I was. I just didn't like in traditional ADHD fashion, you know, I just put I was down the list somewhere priorities and I just didn't get around to getting it sorted out. So before my son was diagnosed. I was working in the field from twenty five years ago. I started working teaching children who were now a divergent in the UK, and so I always knew a bit about it anyway, and that led me to know that I was. It was just yeah, get them sorted first and then get me sorted after.

Speaker 1: You know, that makes total sense, and often mothers put themselves last. So I'm sure many people are resonating with that as well. Rebecca. I have to say, you know, it's funny how sometimes people are attracted to things, particularly in life and work, that ends up being part of their life story. So would you when you say you knew, do you mean you intrinsically knew and yourself that there was you saw the world differently even as a child, or was it that interaction in the neurodivergent space before your kids were diagnosed, where you're like, oh this rings a bell.

Speaker 2: Well, a bit of both, I suppose. So when I was a kid, I knew I was different. I didn't know what ADHD was. I didn't know that's what it was. But I knew that I didn't quite fit in to circles that I wanted to fit into, and I always felt a little bit off, and I'd go to things and always felt a bit like I was being judged, or I wasn't being accepted for who I was, or I if I acted how I wanted to act, I felt like I was being too mature. And then once I got older and started learning about ADHD, I then realized sort of consciously that that's what was going on. It just made perfect sense to me.

Speaker 1: And then, obviously you have the blessing of being able to integrate that into your parenting and make sure your children are supported with their ADHD as well. Did you was your parenting informed with your ADHD in mind, and how your children would benefit from your unique perspective to make sure they felt like they belonged, And clearly you have a deep, deeper understanding of what it's like to have ADHD.

Speaker 2: Yeah, my parenting has always been been informed by not only my own journey, but I've spent the last sort of twenty years researching ADHD thoroughly, in the last fifteen years, completely professionally and personally immersed in that field. And I think parenting is a really important job that we do, and it should be as informed or more informed than a career. ADHD kids, I mean, all kids benefit from strong relationships and relational approaches, but ADHD kids in particular don't do They don't do well under that old fashioned discipline sort of you know, everything you do wrong, I'm going to punish because they have they have a lack of impulse control, and they have they have dysregulation and things that come as part of their disability that they have they are not able to consciously control. But then parents in the old fashioned way of doing things would expect them to be able to control that which they can't, and then they'd get punished for their disability. Essentially, that doesn't help anyone, and it doesn't certainly doesn't improve behavior, and it definitely doesn't improve their self esteem and their mental health. Whereas relational approaches to parenting, where you're focusing less on punishment and or on role modeling, being there for them, support, collaborating, mutually, respectful communication, things like that, that really makes a difference because then when they can control things, they will because they'll want to do the right thing, that's what they're you know, they'll want to do from from inherently, from the inside. But also when they can't we understand that sometimes they're human too, like sometimes they make mistakes, and especially the humans with the disability. So so yeah, in answer to your question, I think just learning, really learning and investing in relational approaches to parenting have been has been the probably one of the biggest things that's impacted the way I parent.

Speaker 1: It will be fascinating to see if your children decide to become compared to how they choose to parent as ADHD is Is there any because obviously you're so invested in the space, as you've already said, is there any think that you think that you've come across in your work that you're like, that is like top standard parenting that I really want to emulate for my own kids.

Speaker 2: Absolutely, one hundred percent. And it actually, you know, if you think logically about it, we're raising babies and then children through their through their develop their most important developmental stages of life, their brains growing, they're figuring out who they are. They really you know, we're really sowing the seeds when we parent, and do we want to sew a seed that says I am here for you, I'm supportive of you, you are safe, and let's work through this together. And let's grow together to be really nice humans, or do we want to sew a seed that's going to grow up into a flower that has low self esteem, mental health challenges and all these things because they're told you are. This is not I'm not a safe space for you because I'm the person who punishes you. And if you don't do what I I want, you get punished. If you do what I want, I'll give you a reward. But what you want actually doesn't matter, and your opinion doesn't matter. And then what we create is someone who grows up with self esteem issues and someone who grows up thinking they're not as worthy as the other people around them, because that's the message we're sending them. And so I think the thing with gentle parenting is it's not about not having boundaries, and it's not about giving them everything they want, but it is about, you know, treating them respectfully and wanting them to treat us respectfully, not because it's demanded and not because they're going to be punished if they don't, but because they want to, which is far more important.

Speaker 1: Talk to me about my spirited child. You said you created bit created it because you saw a gap but for those of us who are listening who don't know what it is, please explain your amazing organization.

Speaker 2: Yeah, so, my Spirited Child was started ill eleven years ago. Eleven and a half years ago. There was nowhere for neurodivergent people back then to really get simple, easy to access information, and I was very aware that the big gap in the entire industry was just knowledge. So I started off just writing a blog, and then I built it into events conferences, and then I built it into resources and books and things, and I just wanted to find a way of getting as much information to as many people as possible. And at the end of the day, I think one of the biggest struggles that disabled people, nouro divergent people have that I hear more than anything is stigma. The stigma is horrendous and it affects us all daily, adults and children. And the way for me, I think one of the biggest ways we can tackle stigma is to beat those misconceptions and misunderstandings and make the information available and really shove it at everybody. So I kind of just went I spend eleven and a half years just throwing information at people as often and as much as I can, and now we run conferences in every state in Australia and New Zealand. We've got I've written lots of books and resources along the way, and yeah, I'm just constantly trying to get as much information to people as possible.

Speaker 1: What are the areas of impact that you see most contributing to an ADHD person a person with ADHD to be able to live their life to the full.

Speaker 2: Yeah, well, there's several. I mean, you know up there, we've already mentioned it would be stigma and it's not even a director or and a direct ADHD challenge, but yet it is one of the biggest things that ADHD is and their families have to cope with. Isn't have to struggle with. But in terms of direct ADHD challenges, I think probably the biggest and most harmful or the most confronting ones would be the sometimes emotional dysregulation that some ADHD has struggle with, because that can lead to anger and aggressive behaviors that they cannot control and they are not trying to hurt people, but unfortunately can sometimes or you know, and then when you mix into that, there's something called rejection sensitive dysphoria, which is very common in ADHD as it's an very extreme lack of capacity to process criticism or failure, and that can really be extremely damaging. Not only can it lead to more dysregulation and aggressive behaviors, but it can also lead to people pleasing because we don't want to fail all, we don't want to be criticized through people please. And when an ADHD has this need to please people, and this is common for a lot of neurodivergent people actually, but when we have this need to please people, we can put ourselves in really harmful dangers, vulnerable positions because we're too afraid to say no, too afraid to let someone down, too afraid to be judged by people. And a lot of ADHD is end up in a lot of trouble because of both the emotional dysregulation and the rejection sensitivity. Those two things. I think, you know, there's probably one hundred, one hundred and fifty different characteristics to ADHD, maybe maybe more, but those two are probably the most potentially harmful, especially when someone struggles with both.

Speaker 1: Like I'm very aware that your organization focuses on children in itself, spirited children, but I also can imagine that having those challenges are very difficult when somebody enters higher education or high school, and particularly employments. If anybody's listening today, who's an employee, employer, or a teacher, how do you recommend that they support somebody with ADHD.

Speaker 2: One thing that they can do, whether they're a teacher or an employer, is stop looking at the negative and look at the positive. ADHD is incredibly creative minded. I love working with teenage ADHDers who are massive chip on their shoulder, really angry at the world. Often boys, not always, and you know, and they're the ones that teachers tend to really struggle to work with because they're the ones who are defiant and they can be seen as rude or they can you know, they can be very angry and aggressive. They're my favorite to work with because beneath that anger and aggression is usually a really creative, really kind they're the kindest. When you get rid of that justsregulation that they're feeling and support them, you'll see kindness and empathy like you have never seen before. They're very intuitive to what people need. I mean that can be a challenge in itself because that intuition also unfortunately tells them when people are annoyed with them, which then triggers that fear of criticism. So there's all these things playing into each other. It's very complex, but we just need to start stop seeing the results of their disability and start seeing who they are beneath the disability and the kind and empathetic and wonderfully creative person that they are. And for employers, if you own, you already have to put in a few very simple accommodations and supports, and you can have someone who's an absolutely top level, outstanding employee, you know, just just making a few adjustments and you know, try and stay clear of criticizing them, but focus barely heavily on their strengths and their successes and helping build their feelings of success, and they'll really thrive in an employer in a career.

Speaker 1: Absolutely. And I think also I want to add to that, if there's an employer listening, to never assume that you know what an access need or an accommodation is. To always ask the person themselves, because even though we might have the same diagnosis, we're still individuals. And to say that old adage, you've met one person with ADHD, you've met one person with ADHD, you've met one person with cerebral palsy, You've met one person with cerebral palsy in that same vein. I'd love to speature about what neurodivergent affirming practice is.

Speaker 2: Yeah, so, neurodivergent practice, I think at the moment, is one of the most important principles that exists for disabled people. Neurodivergent affirming or neuro affirming practice simply is the idea that when someone is neurodivergent, we don't look at them as something to be fixed, We don't look at them as something to be cured. We don't want to try and make them like neurotypical people because they're not. We want to celebrate who they are. So if a person who's neurodivergent works into one of our clinics, we don't say, oh, come here, let me fix you, let me make you like everyone else. What we say is you are actually incredible just as you are. We don't want to change you. If you've got things that you are struggling with, we will help you to not struggle with those things, but we don't want to change your identity. We don't want to change who you are. We don't want to stop you being neurodivergent. If you're autistic, you be autistic. That is your identity, that's who you are. Great, but will help you, you know, if you've got a bit of anxiety, will help you with the things, will help you to self advocate, will help you with whatever you want help with. But we don't want to make you like neurotypical people because you're great eight as the autistic person you.

Speaker 1: Are now as a dyslexic person. I'm going to make sure I say this correctly, but I probably won't. Let's be honest. You're also the founder of pe K Center. Can you tell us about that?

Speaker 2: Yeah? PEKE PEKE Center. So I'm dyslexic too, so don't worry. Yeah. So PEKE was the neurofirm in practice that I mentioned before. Myself and Christina Keeble set it up. We were just so fed up of taking our kids to therapy and just feeling like there was always somebody telling us what's wrong with them, what they can't do. No celebration of the amazing human beings that they are. My kids. So my eldest son, who is nearly twenty, he has a moderate intellectual disability as well as ADHD. He has so many strengths. Yes, he absolutely has challenges as well, really big ones, but he has so many strengths and I want to take him. I always wanted to take him somewhere that recognize those strengths whilst helping him with his challenges, and it just wasn't out there. So Christina and I had this big conversation one day and said, if there was one thing we could change in the world, it would be the way therapy and treatment services were provided to stop making people feel like rubbish about themselves and we and we sort of sat there in this big long conversation said well, let's just do it ourselves.

Speaker 1: You know, who is the PEKE center for. Is it purely for people with ADHD or do you also support people with autism?

Speaker 2: Everyone? So the PEKE set we it's multi disciplinary, so we have art therapists, music therapists, psychologists, OTs, speechies, you know, everything covered and we have We don't agree with people aging out of services. You don't age out of a disability, so we are very much across the lifespan. And we also don't turn people away. We often get we do get mostly children, and we often, I think because of who Christina and I are, we get a lot of the I would call them tricky kids. I have one of those who need a little bit of extra supports. We get a lot of those who've come from other centers where they didn't want to work with them. We love them, we love them, we want them, and we love being around them and spending time with them, and we are excited to see them when they walk in. And so we literally are for everyone. We are fully inclusive. Someone neurotypical can walk through our doors and so our want art therapy great. Someone with any disability can walk through our doors. I want art therapy great. You know, we just embrace every single person.

Speaker 1: You must have a very long waiting list, because it almost sounds like a utopia of disability Rebigga.

Speaker 2: We do have pretty long waiting lists, especially in our Cranbourne Center because that was the one that we started four and a half years ago, so that's obviously it's had a lot of time to build up and people know about it over there. I think Whereaby Center has less weight to lists because that's quite a new center, so it's still sort of growing, but Yeah, it's getting that, you know again, getting that information out there to people that this is it's not just that this is an option of a way it can be done. This is the way it should be done. You know, people should be celebrated regardless of what they've got going on.

Speaker 1: What advice would you give to a parent or an individual that are just starting to navigate their own diagnosis or a child's diagnosis.

Speaker 2: I would give them the advice that to be kind to themselves. It's a process, and not just a process physically and what we have to experience, but a process internally of acceptance and then learning and then more acceptance and then mind changing. And don’t be too hard on yourself, try because when you're first in that space and you first get those diagnoses for yourself or for a child, you'd start learning things. And then the more you learn, the more you feel this guilt or whatever or shame for things you didn't do. You know how you've learned that they should be done. And so just to have kindness for yourself, be relaxed about it, and just go with the journey. Learn as much as you can. It's the big big thing. Knowledge really is power if it's for yourself, if it's for your child, it doesn't matter. The more you learn, the more you can help yourself or your child. So learn as much as you can and remember that you might not be there right at the start, but one day you will be proud to be who you are, whether that's yourself or your child. And if it's your child, they need to one day be proud of who they are, so really start that from as early as you can, as early as you can get to that point. I also think a lot of people struggle with how to tell their child that they are not a divergent or have a disability, And I think if the parent can really focus on themselves feeling proud of being that identity, then it's much easier to tell the child, because it's only hard to tell them if you think it's a bad thing.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And I totally relate to that because my disability was never framed as a negative to me as a child, and that's formed how I view myself going forward. It was absolutely fundamental, so I completely agree with you, Rebecca. Finally, the reason why I started the I Can't Stand podcast many years ago now was I was sick of strangers coming up to me in public and asking me inappropriate questions. For me, it was what happened to you? And it's like, I'm very lucky that my disability isn't connected to trauma, but I instantly would think of other disabled people and I think, gosh, like that is just an inappropriate thing to ask a stranger. What's one question you wish you never got asked by a stranger of Beka.

Speaker 2: It's more a statement rather than a question. I get lots of people try and tell me, still to this day, that ADHD isn't real. The kid's just naughty, and that is so so wrong, so completely wrong for a start, but the misconception and the misunderstanding there and the ignorance in that statement just really really frustrates me. I think actually probably the most frustrating question that I get asked. But I do also understand it is people is about parenting, and people say, if I'm not allowed to punish my child, how will I teach them not to hit, not to push, not to be rude or whatever? And I also recognize that it's a perfectly legitterally a perfectly legitimate question, and one that twenty five years ago, I probably would have asked myself. But the answer to me is so simple, which is, if you have a child who's over the age of two, they know not to hit you. I'm going to teach them anything they already know. You have to help them be able to not hit you. Know, there's no lesson, So punishment isn't gonna work because there's no lesson in there. It's about supporting what is causing them to have those actions in the first place, and if we support it rather than punish it, then we might actually be able to change it.

Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the I Can't Stand Podcast. If you enjoyed today's conversation, the best way you can support the show is by sharing it with a friend or posting about it on social media. And if you have a moment, leaving a rating and review helps me more people find these stories. Don't forget. You can always send me an email I Can't Stand Podcast at gmail dot com, or you can follow me over on Instagram at Peterhook. I'll see you next week. I would like to respectfully acknowledge the wondery and Bunner wrong people of the call and nation of which I record the podcast today, and I pay my respects to both elders past and present, along with and especially to those in the First Nation's communities who are disabled themselves