Disability Journalism in Australia with Nas Campanella, ABC National Disability Affairs Reporter

Nas Campanella is the ABC’s National Disability Affairs Reporter and one of the most prominent disabled journalists working in Australia today. Blind since birth and living with Charcot Marie Tooth neuropathy, Nas has built a career reporting on the policies, systems and stories that shape the lives of disabled Australians.

In this episode of The I Can’t Stand Podcast, Nas speaks about the responsibility of covering disability within a national news organisation and the complexities of reporting on a community she is also part of. We discuss how disability stories are framed in the media, the role journalism plays in shaping public understanding, and the issues currently affecting disabled Australians, including the NDIS, employment and education.

Nas also reflects on the personal side of working in journalism while living with disability, including navigating public attention, motherhood, and the expectations placed on disabled people in the media. This conversation offers a thoughtful look at disability reporting in Australia and why representation in journalism matters.

Listen to the Episode

Listen on:Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/the-i-cant-stand-podcast/id1544184497

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2nw2c5PVbpRPx327KQdB7v

Omny: https://omny.fm/shows/the-i-cant-stand-podcast

Key Topics Discussed

In this episode we discuss:

• What it means to report on disability inside a national news organisation

• The biggest issues currently affecting disabled Australians

• How media coverage shapes public understanding of disability

• Living with blindness and Charcot Marie Tooth while working in journalism

• Representation, responsibility and the future of disability reporting

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Transcript: 00:00:02

Peta: Hello, and welcome to the I Can't Stand Podcast, the podcast exploring what it's like to live with the disability. My name's Peter Hook, I have cerebral palsy and I'm your host. It's such a pleasure to say that I have Nas Campanella on the podcast this week. I'm pretty sure you'll know who Nas is, but if you don't, she's the National Disability Affairs reporter at the ABC and one of the most recognizable disabled voices in Australian media. She has built a career asking the difficult questions, amplifying the experiences of disabled Australians and bringing disability issues into the national conversation. Today you'll hear Nas reflect on the responsibility of reporting on disability, the issue us that continue to shape our lives across Australia, and the importance of representation in journalism and public life. She also speaks about the role the disability community plays in guiding her work, the progress that has been made since the Disability Role Commission, and why many of her stories are ultimately aimed at educating non disabled Australians. We also talk about identity parenting and the everyday realities of navigating the world as a disabled woman. So without any further ado, it is my pleasure to introduce Naz Campanella.

00:01:52

Nas: My name is Nas Campanella and I am the national Disability Affairs reporter at the ABC. Thank you so much for having me, Peter.

00:01:59

Peta: It's such a pleasure to have here here. As many people listening to this podcast will already know who you are. You're probably very well aware of your rock star status in the disability community. It's so fantastic to have somebody out there representing our voice every day. And I know that you take that responsibility very very seriously, and you have an interesting dissection in your job. I think, particularly because of course you're a journalist, but you'll also represent disability and disabled people so well when you think about the issues you were just speaking before we jumped on Mike about the issues that you have to sort of think about what you're presenting today through work. What are the issues at the moment that you're seeing that are the most urgent or maybe misunderstood that keeps you up at night for disabled people.

00:03:00

Nas: I think they are the kinds of issues that have been plaguing the sector and disabled people for a very long time. It's the misconceptions about who we are and the way we live our lives. The NDIS is a huge issue at the moment, particularly with bringing down costs and ensuring that people still have the supports they need to live a full and flourishing life. The low expectations that are still placed on people, particularly in employment. Employment is something that I constantly have stories pitched to me about or that people talk about, you know, things that need to be addressed. I think another really big thing is education and the lack of inclusion across the education space for students. I think also along the lines of education is that the number of expulsions and suspensions, particularly for children who are neurodiverse. So I think there's a lot that still needs to really be be tackled and thought about and addressed.

00:04:09

Peta: Many of those issues will be not used to people listening. I feel like, and I'm sure you feel the same way. We talk about these issues almost every day. How do you keep motivation? Particularly, you know, do you feel like you're moving the needle or do you sometimes feel like you're just pushing a rock up against a hill and the momentum just doesn't seem to be happening or have I just woke it up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.

00:04:35

Speaker 3: As look, I think that I try to be ever the optimist is the short answer, and I think, you know, we have made progress.

00:04:46

Nas: I think it would be remiss of us not to acknowledge that. You know, we've had a Royal commission into violence, abuse, neglect and exploitation where people beared their souls, they revealed some of the deepest and darkest things that had happened to them. That was a huge piece of work that came out of the blood, sweat and tears of the disability community itself. And so I think things like that we should be celebrating because that is a piece of progress. More than anything, it has put on the public record what happened to many people within our community, and that is something that we can't ignore. So that's one piece of really important progress. I think. You know, in my work, I get to see every day the incredible success stories. And one of the big things for me is not only reporting on you know, the violence, the exploitation, the people having dis plans KRT or the negative stuff. And believe me, there is a lot of negative kind of content and stories out there, and you know, what often makes the news is quite bleak. But I like to also balance that with really positive and uplifting stories and stories that really just are education pieces for non disabled people. So recently I did a story on the importance of mentoring because I did quite a lot of outside of my job at the ABC, I did quite a lot of mentoring with young people, particularly with vision impairment, given that's my disability. So I did a story where I actually went and met one of the mentees, a ten year old girl who I'd been talking online and on the phone with for about two years, but we'd never actually met face to face. So I did a story on how you know you can have physiotherapists, you can have occupational therapists in your life, teaching you all that you need to know to live a full and fulfilling life as a disabled person. But really it's hearing from other disabled people who have already been on that path that you can find most valuable. So I've done stories on that which were really great and received so well. And another one on how to talk to children about disability because I was finding that, you know, I had lots of parents approaching me. They didn't have disabilities, their children didn't have disabilities, but if their children spotted people out and about who were disabled, they wanted to know how to answer their questions in a way that was thoughtful and empowering and the way that we as disabled people would want them to talk about it. So it's about finding the balance, I think, and knowing that there are obviously stories we need to tell, like those sort of more bleak ones, But then there are stories that I see as really needing to be out there, not for disabled people, but for non disabled people, because they are the ones. You know, often when I do my stories, i'm preaching to the converted here. You know, with disabled people, they know the stories that I'm telling. They've been in those positions often more often than not. So often my stories, I would argue more tug at it non disabled people, because they are the ones that need to kind of be a bit more educated and informed about disability and disability issues.

00:08:10

Peta: One hundred percent. And I think that's where you do the balance so well, because I don't envy you being in this position as because you're often put on a pedestal that you're speaking for the disability community. But in some ways, as you said, you're also trying to cater for people who have absolutely no understanding of what it's like to live with a disability. But in saying that, I'm really interested about what you learn or what you've learned through your work with disabled people. Particularly you mentioned before that you do do that mentoring, and I know you've been doing that for a long time. What have you recently learned from a disabled person that you thought, Oh, I never thought about that experience, or oh yes, and that's thing. This is.

00:09:01

Nas: It's a really Look, it's a great question. And I think people think that, you know, I'm like a specialist reporter in disability and therefore I know everything about disability, and that couldn't be further from the truth. I am an expert in two disabilities my own. I've got a neurological condition called charco Mara tooth neuropathy, which is a condition that affects my balance and my sensitivity and muscle tone. And then I'm I'm blind. So those are the two disabilities that I'm an expert in. The rest of the sector, the rest of the sort of you know, disabilities that kind of come across my desk in stories. I know a bit about them, but I am not an expert. And that's what I love about my role. Each and every day looks completely different for me. I speak to different people with different disabilities. Those disabilities impact them in different ways. You know, you meet one autistic person, you simply meet one autistic person. You know, the way they experience the world, the way they live, is so different. And that's what I love that I am constantly learning because the community very much by you know, showing me what issues are out there, what is bugging them at the time, what issues are plaguing them. That's how I decide what to do stories on. Of course, there are stories that need to be done, like, for example, you know, announcements by government or you know changes with the NDAs that there are various ways that stories come about, But a lot of the time it is listening to community and going, yeah, that's a real issue. Let's cover that.

00:10:40

Peta: You've certainly earned your stripes to be in the position that you are now, and as like, you've been in the media for a very long time. You know, you're part of the Triple J family for a very long time. And I listened to.

00:10:53

Nas: That that was a long time, wasn't it seven years?

00:10:57

Peta: And I listened to so many interviews about how you read the news and how you were able to have mini feeds in your head at the one time. So clearly you're so passionate and you're developing skills every day. But I often think about the young people, or they don't necessarily have to be young, the people that didn't get the opportunity to be the journalist, and I often think, like, how do you put that in your head? To think they're people up there that are politely envious and you know you quite rightly. You know you have the skills and the expertise and you've deserved to be here. But it's one of those things that I just wish that there was more representation, particularly on the other news channels, that other disabled people could have more opportunities like you have. Nez.

00:11:54

Nas: Yeah, Look, I am very aware of the privileged position that I hold. I've never taken it for granted, and you're right, I have worked hard, and I'm not going to pretend that I haven't. It has not been easy, and to be honest with you, nothing has ever larneded in my lap. I've always had to work really hard to either make the opportunities happen or preempt a goal that I have. For example, you know, the Disability Affairs Round. So I was news reading for Triple J for a very long time. So in the years leading up to pitching the idea to the ABC of the Disability Affairs Round, I started doing some sort of TV stories, little TV stories, just whenever I had some spare time in my work at Triple J, I was doing a bit more reporting, you know, online and doing sort of longer form radio stories to prove that you know, I wasn't just a newsreader or a news journalist, that I could do the sort of longer form reporting. And some of that reporting was actually most of the reporting in my career before on the Disability Affairs Round was not about disability affairs at all. It was courts, it was a bit of sport, It was you know, social affairs type stories, and so it was important to kind of cement the different skills that I had. And then I pitched the idea to the ABC of why we needed a disability affairs reporter, why it would be really impactful, particularly around the launch of the Disability Role Commission so I have had to work really hard and most disabled people do to get ahead. You know, we were double the amount that non disabled people do to get the opportunities we do. So while I don't take it for granted, I certainly realize the position that I have and I always want to make sure that I'm making every day in this role count and that I do set an example for people, both disabled and non disabled, so that a the disabled people know that you know, this is possible and to you know, kind of have something to kind of motivate them, but also that non disabled people see that it's possible and that no one will ever place those low expectations on me or others who are keen to get in this industry in the future. But you know, I can't help if people are envious. I mean that the reality is I've worked hard, and I'm very proud of myself for doing it.

00:14:29

Peta: As you should be. And I think also people forget that it's not up to you. How many disabled people are in front and behind the cover. Other people make those decisions and you're just doing your job.

00:14:45

Nas: Yeah, And I think look, I have seen a real jump in representation, particularly in media in recent time, I mean we've got obviously, you know, we've had an Australian of the Year who has got you know, prominent disability of figure himself. You know, he's been obviously dealan or cod has been across commercial networks doing a lot of the sports coverage. We've got Ellie Cole who's also on commercial stations. I mean, obviously, not everybody's a Paralympian, and we need to acknowledge that. I sometimes used to get really annoyed when the only disabled people that were ever put on pedestals were or Proalympians, because you know, I was never into sport, and it's sort of felt like, well, hang on, some of us don't like sport, but we're still really really great and do good things. But you know, we've seen brilliant people like that. We've seen you know, appearance activist Kylie Finlay, who is you know, a social influencer. We've seen all these prominent people come out and use their voice in really powerful ways, and you know, people writing books, and we've got people like Anna Diviny, who is you know across film and television these days, Chloe Hate and you know all these people now, So I think representation has definitely improved. We could always do with more. But even across the ABC, you know, we've got some brilliant people Charles Bryce, Sarah Richards who are forward facing, and you know, I have their presence on prominent platforms across the organization. And you know this has been brilliant because when I started out almost kind of fifteen years ago in media, I was the only one. I really did feel like one of the only ones, particularly here at the ABC. And then you know, I think, no, it's not my job, it's not my purden to ensure that representation is increased. But I don't take my role in playing a part in that for granted. And you know, the burdens actually for the people at the top, the managers, the.

00:16:50

Speaker 4: Leadership teams across all businesses, whether it be media, whether it be theater, etc. Wherever you are, it's the people at the top who need to be employing more of us and seeing value.

00:17:05

Nas: In us here here.

00:17:09

Peta: As a journalist, you spend your life listening closely to people. What do you think cited people might miss that your intuition helps you to have better judgment, to get a better interview.

00:17:24

Nas: For example, I think by not looking at people's faces or body language. I discern their body language in other ways, and I think that's been quite powerful. I can tell if someone is fidgeting just by listening. I think I listen probably a bit more intently. I think that I need to work a little harder to understand whether people are, you know, I guess, rolling their eyes at me when I ask them a question, or if a politician is feeling a bit uncomfortable. I need to read them in different ways. But I think not having any vision means I really lean into those other senses, you know, the kind of just the vibe of the room, and listening really intently as to whether they're fidgeting or moving around, and listening to their voice, you know, does their tone change when they're answering certain questions? Are they pausing longer, which gives me an indication that they are really thinking about what they're saying to me. It has been a learned skill, I have to say. I think people automatically think because I have no vision. I'm a great listener. I'm also a great talker, and I had to really learn that when you're interviewing people, let them speak. Don't quickly interrupt, and that's a bit difficult when you can't see, because often you look. I assume people look for facial expressions to know when someone has finished verbalizing a thought, and you can see in someone's face whether they're procrastinating or continue a sentence. But I had to learn to really be patient and wait and not be afraid of silence to give people. And this is in an interview, mostly around a pre record. I think it's a bit different when you're on air. You don't really want dead air, but you know it's really important to let people finish their thoughts and not sort of interrupt them. And that has been a bit of a learned skill. But I think, yeah, my intuition because of my vision impairment is heightened.

00:19:31

Peta: As you said before, you live with two disabilities, and I'm interested how navigating the two has shaped the way you understand disability, particularly with the difference of how people see or maybe overlook, particularly your hidden disability.

00:19:51

Nas: Yeah, it's a really good question. So obviously my two disabilities, one is visible, the blindness I can't hide from that. I use a cane. My eyes look very different to other people's, and then my neurological condition is invisible. It's the generative that condition, So to be honest, over time, you could probably notice from the way I walk, you know, I have a bit of an unusual gait. Maybe you assume something was going on there, But more or less, my neurological condition is invisible. And I think what I've learned over time, just personally, is that I've become way more comfortable in telling people what i need. With my invisible disability, I can't expect people to know what I need and when I need it, and so I need to I've become very comfortable and very proud of who I am and the disabilities I have, And I know that takes time. Everyone's on their own journey. I think it's pretty rare to be sort of born with disability or acquired disability and then immediately be sort of have a sense of pride in it. I hope that changes with so many more of us, you know, in the future, kind of feeling more pride and telling other people that they can feel that too. So I hope that changes. But it's taken a little while to feel that, but now I do. I'm really comfortable verbalizing what I need.

00:21:13

Peta: Like me, I understand you've experienced medical trauma. I'm sorry that you've gone through that. I know it was very difficult for me given those experiences, How did you approach something like pregnancy? Did you assume that you were going to experience barriers and have ablism? And I was hoping that those that ableism wasn't as bad as what you maybe thought they might be. What was that experience like for you?

00:21:38

Nas: That's I think like you and I to say, would people always assume we're going to face ableism and barriers? It's just the way it is, and quite frankly, many of us do on a daily basis. So yes, did I assume that it would be difficult, and there would be trauma, and there would be barriers and ableism? Absolutely. What I was so pleasantly surprised about is the fact that I had this incredible team that I had built around me. I had the most beautiful midwife, all of her staff, obstetricians, hsios, Some of the team I had already been working with, you know, so my p dietarist, my exercise physiologist, my women's visio, all of those people I'd been seeing some of them since I was fifteen. Actually, so for a very long time, and they recommended other people I could see. But by building an incredible team around me, and being very upfront about my concerns, by being open and honest myself, and by being very forceful in saying you know, I mean I pretty much did say, you know, if I have my baby and a social worker ends up at my bedside asking questions about how I'm going to mother this child, there will be trouble. So I think, you know, it takes a long time to be a good self advocate, and if you don't have someone to show you how to do that or to do it for you, it can be very difficult. So I was very very lucky that not only have I become a good self advocate and that's taken thirty years, but also I had my partner there with me sort of saying the same things. So no, we had a brilliant experience. But you had to be extremely proactive, You had to get all the right people in the room. You had to be very forceful about your wants and needs. But the reality was my midwife had never had a patient with my type of disabilities before on her books, and so I was speaking to other mums who were blind had already been through it. I was talking to mums who had my neurological condition and who had already had a couple of kids, So I was talking to them about the equipment they used. I was talking to them about the barriers that they've faced, the questions that were asked, the things that got them down and that really helped prepare me.

00:24:05

Peta: You're now navigating parenting a toddler. What sort of challenges have come up for you that maybe have surprised you, Because I think we can automatically think of how we're all going to cope in the newborn stage, but i'd love to hear how you adapted and maybe problem solved the stage that you're in at the moment.

00:24:24

Nas: Yeah, look, some of the things. Look, I don't think they necessarily surprised me. They were definitely things I had considered would be a little bit challenging. But one of the biggest ones was how I would get out of the house with my baby given that I couldn't use a PRAM because I obviously need to use my cane, and then I wasn't keen on a lot of blind mums, for example, use a PRAM toe, which is where they sort of put a harness around their hips and pull the prem along behind them so they can still use their guide dog or cane out in front. But I wasn't keen to do that because the double whammy for me was with my neurological condition. I was worried that I'd be walking along, I'd fall over and the PRAM would topple over as well. So for me, it was about you know, and I didn't realize that was going to get me down as much as it did until I was at home and unable to get out once my partner had gone back to work. So we got a duela, I guess, you know, a woman who would come over and support me. And she'd had three kids of her own, she'd managed other people's berths with them, and she would come and we would go and we would do things like swimming classes or sensory play classes, music classes. Sometimes we'd even just go to the park and get a coffee and walk around and have a chat. But she would push the PRAM. I would hold her arm, and that's how I was able to get out of the house and maintain my positive mental health and also just get out with my baby and go to mums groups and things and interact with other muments mums and their children. Another thing was how I would monitor where my child was at the park. That was always going to be a big issue. I always have to have some with me. That's just non negotiable when you can't see. But I would do things like, for example, squeaky shoes on him, but he very quickly figured out that he didn't want to wear those, so he'd take them off. I tried textured clothing, so I was picking up, you know, the right child at the park. But now what's really cool is, you know, my son's about to turn four. And we were at an indoor place center the other day and we were frolicking around in this big pit full of balls and cool kind of toys and squishy things, and another child came up to me and was asking me some questions and my son grabbed my hand and said, oh, my mummy can't see. You know, you have to put things in her hand. And then we were climbing up a slide, for example, at the park, and there were some children who had left their shoes in the middle of the slide, and my son said to the children. My mummy can't see and if you leave your shoes here, she's going to trip over. Need to move them. And I had to explain to my son. Not everybody's mum is blind, darling. They're not used to this. We have to explain to them why it's important to keep your shoes out of the way. So it's really lovely that my son is now educating other children.

00:27:17

Peta: And another reason why I disabled people are such great parents, because you create beautiful, empathetic disability allies almost by default.

00:27:26

Nas: Yes, it was really sweet. It was really sweet. The children actually leant over to me and said, oh, I'm so sorry we left our shoes there, and I said, that's okay. You didn't know that I was coming down the slide and that I couldn't see that they were Really it was really sweet to see them kind of say, almost acknowledging that they needed to kind of do better and they hadn't thought about it. It was quite lovely.

00:27:48

Peta: Actually, it's been such a pleasure talking to you this morning now, as I know you're such a busy person, so thank you for making time to do this with us. I really appreciate it. My final question is a question I ask at the end of every podcast, and it's around certain questions you wish you never got asked by strangers. I just got sick of people asking me what happened to me, so I started the podcast, and I'd love to ask you, what's one question you wish people would stop asking you about your disability.

00:28:21

Nas: It's not so much a question that it's a comment, and I think what I get regularly is I'm sorry, and that for me, it says a few things. It's that you pity me. You think I don't have a good life, and you think that I need to see to have a good life or be happy, and the reality couldn't be further from the truth. It still does stop me in my tracks and when complete strangers say that to me when I'm waiting at the bus stop or I'm sitting on a train. So it's definitely something I would love to hear less of.

00:29:03

Peta: Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of the I Can't Stand Podcast. If you enjoyed today's conversation, please share it with a friend, and also, if you have a moment, please leave a rating and review. It helps more people find the stories and It's also fantastic for me to get actual feedback. This episode brings us to the end of season five. Thank you so much for being part of this season. It didn't exactly go to plan with it starting so late in twenty twenty five because of a back injury. The podcast will return later in this year twenty twenty six, and I cannot wait to share what's coming next. Until then, take care and I'll speak too soon. I would like to respectfully ignowledge there were Wondery and Bunn wrong people of the Coulan Nation of which I record the podcast to day, and I pay my respects to both elders past and present, along with and especially to those in the first Nation's communities who are disabled themselves.