Psychosocial Disability, Self Advocacy and Creative Recovery with Pam Joy Wood

Pam Joy Wood is an Australian author and performer whose solo show DYS-ORDER-ED and memoir Five Fat Sausages explore life with psychosocial disability, complex mental health, and long term recovery. In this episode of The I Can’t Stand Podcast, Pam speaks openly about living with ADHD, complex PTSD, borderline personality disorder traits, and decades of acute and chronic depression.

This conversation matters because it exposes how systems can disable people living with mental illness, from misprescribed medication to institutional harm, while also highlighting the power of self advocacy and creative expression.

We discuss systemic failure in mental health care, the importance of building the right support team, the role of diagnosis in self understanding, the realities of recovery after long term depression, and why joy can be a radical act for people whose lives have been shaped by stigma.

This episode is for anyone living with psychosocial disability, supporting someone who is, or wanting a deeper understanding of mental health through lived experience.

Listen to the Episode:

Apple Podcasts:https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/the-i-cant-stand-podcast/id1544184497

Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/2nw2c5PVbpRPx327KQdB7v

Omny:https://omny.fm/shows/the-i-cant-stand-podcast

As mentioned in the episode, Pam has made DYS-ORDER-ED available to watch for free. You can download and view the show here:

https://youtu.be/eCxwVCc4Qb0?si=Q2znDIVotNGH1ebX

Key Topics Discussed

In this episode, we discuss:

• What psychosocial disability means in real life

• Living with ADHD, complex PTSD and borderline personality disorder traits

• How medical systems can disable rather than support

• Misdiagnosis, medication side effects and serotonin withdrawal

• Learning to self advocate within mental health services

• Recovery after long term acute and chronic depression

• The relationship between creativity and regulation

• Why joy can be a radical act

• Writing Five Fat Sausages and telling your story on your own terms

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Transcript: 00:00:00

Peta: Before we begin, I have a content warning this week. In this episode, my guest speaks openly about experiences of self harm, suicidal thoughts, trauma, and institutional harm within the mental health system. Please take care while listening and feel free to skip this episode if it feels too close right now. If you or someone you love needs support, help is always available in Australia. You can contact Lifeline on thirteen eleven fourteen, Beyond Blue on thirteen hundred twenty two forty six thirty six, or Suicide Callback Service on thirteen hundred sixty five ninety four sixty seven. I've also included links in the show notes. Hello, and welcome to the I Can't Stand Podcast, the show exploring what it's like to live with a disability. My name is Peter Hook, I'm your host, and I have cerebral palsy. This week's conversation is with Pam Wood, an author and performer whose solo show Disordered explores life with psychosocial disability, complex mental health, and recovery through storytelling, humor, and education. Pam and I talk about the way systems can disable people living with mental illness, the importance of self advocacy, and what creative recovery can look like after many years of acute and chronic depression. We also discuss her memoir Five Fat Sausages, and why joy can be a radical act for people whose lives have been shaped by stigma and misunderstanding. If you'd like to watch Disordered, Pam has made the show available to download and to watch for free. There's a link in the show notes, but without any further ado, here's Pam Wood.

00:02:20

Pam: Hello, I'm so excited to be here. My name is Pam Wood. My pronouns are she, her, gorgeous. I have been living with complex mental health for about over thirty years, diagnosed many years before that, undiagnosed and hidden, and I have the proud honor, like many of us, of having had the disability before they even invented it.

00:02:55

Peta: It's such a pleasure to have you on here, Pamy. I'm gonna call you Pemi because I think you just that's your energy and I love it. We met like very ceo. Typically I can't even say that in a way that I think the universe just bought it brought us together. I think in a way not to be too woo woo, but we were at a function together celebrating the opening of the Fringe Festival in Melbourne, and you walked in in all your glory. Can you tell me what you were wearing the day I met you.

00:03:28

Pam: Yes, I was wearing a big orange boiler suit. If you think of San Quentin and the orange suits that they used to have to wear, I was wearing one of those, which was my costume for last year's show Disordered, and it was covered in fabric band aids that my beautiful Emmi Pally design made for all of the band aids mental health professionals have tried to hit me with to try and fix me. My trra was made of all my antidepressants. I wore it as a crown because I'm owning that. If you guide it, why not flaunt it.

00:04:12

Peta: It's so for me. It's so fantastic to see disability presented in that way. It's a form of art, like you were literally a form of expressive art on that lot as you were on stage last year. You did an amazing show which was also still featured this year for twenty twenty five under the Digital Fringe. So that is amazing for anybody that's not able to physically go to a show told me about disordered disordered.

00:04:45

Pam: Spelled dys for the very bad form of diss. I believe that my mental health has been categorized in all the bad ways and order my whole life. Everyone's wanted me to be in order. And the air was three reasons. One was education. Two I have been my end mental psychiatric emergency departments. And the third was if I thought if I was ever going to be with a man, he would have to have erect ol dysfunction because I was so damaged. But fixed that, Peter, I'll fix that. Yes.

00:05:37

Peta: So I was able to watch your show online, and I've watched it a couple of times now because there was so much to it, Like I couldn't really take notes the first time. I just really wanted to be in it and to really understand your perspective and all the things that you've been through and the amazing and complex life that you have had. And I want to sort of talk the audience through very gently on what we're going to talk about today. Then there will be you know, discussions at the top of the episode of the sort of subject, but we've got to talk about today, So everybody's prepared. But your show talks will walks through your life. You physically go to different years of your life and you speak about particular events of those years, and in between that you actually have zoom sessions with I believe your director.

00:06:32

Pam: Yes, a lot of people thought that Andy was my therapist. So Andy and I did most of the development of the show via zoom, which was really hard because of her commitments because she's a very highly is it the word ranked or esteemed artist in our own self. She showed sections that she thought were really relevant to forward the story, but also she showed sections to give me a break because none of us knew how I was going to perform the show, and it was different every night, and it was also so that I could self regulate. So that was her creative genius to go through hours and hours and hours and hours, ours, ours, ours, of you know, zoomage, and to pick out the things that she thought were particularly relevant to create something really very unique.

00:07:46

Peta: It was unique, and I really valued to have that different perspective to have somebody talk you through it, because I just wanted to keep you a hug all the way through the show. So it was lovely to be like, Okay, there's a person. They're supporting you through this because I'm really interested to ask you what you know drove you and drives you still today to share your story in a creative work like this, because for me, it would be so daunting to be like, okay, this is my whole life at all.

00:08:19

Pam: Still, I don't know why I did it. Really, I've never stepped onto a stage, Peter. I've never had any acting training, so to step onto the LaMaMa stage was the first time, apart from my corporate work in the past, that I've been in front of people. And so I was a very untested artist with going through complex rollercoaster emotions as I was triggered in different parts. As it turned out, I had some sessions with Andy before and I wanted to see if I had what it took to be on stage, and she said, oh my gosh, my only worry is You've got so many stories. There's so many shows. I didn't quite know what would happen at the end of that performance. And I've found out that a lot of artists experience the same thing, and that's, you know, a big mental health breakdown. My psychologist mel Caliher came to every show because I wanted it to be safe for the audience and also Andy every show said you don't have to do this. Anytime you want to stop, you can stop, so I knew that I was safely held. Sad thing is I did go into a bit of mania because I was I wasn't being looked after at home, and I did. I was sleep deprived by the end of it, and I did fall fall. You don't fall intominia. I think you steam roll ahead in Domania. And I forgot to actually have the psychologists there for me as well. I was so concerned that other people in the audience were triggered, and they were, and she spent a lot of time with people, and we had safe rooms and everything. My concern was over with the audience. I thought I didn't have to concern myself with myself. I learned a big lesson.

00:10:33

Peta: And I hope, I mean, I'm interested. Also, I don't want to jump around too much, but I hope that you look to do something else in this space, because your voice is so valuable to know that you are protected and you can take that learning God to whatever you do next.

00:10:49

Pam: I have been I've been involved now with skizzyeng for people with complex mental health run by the magnificent Hardi, Everett and I did stand up for the very first time at the Melbourne Comedy Festival.

00:11:06

Peta: Amazing.

00:11:08

Pam: And so I am going to stay in this space. I don't know what it's going to look like, but I will stay in this space because the best people are in this space. They are my peepes. Peter, there are my peepes.

00:11:22

Peta: I'm really glad you found them.

00:11:24

Pam: It's been really challenging having friendships who don't have lived mental health experience really challenging.

00:11:33

Peta: And I also know that you have ADHD as well.

00:11:36

Pam: Yes, my proud and happy moment, Peter, it's laminated.

00:11:44

Peta: Congratulations. Thank you.

00:11:47

Pam: On a percentile bell curve, I'm ninety nine point nine eighth percentile ADHD symptoms and then attentiveness endorsed and hyperactivity impulsivity both motor and verbal one hundred percent. So I have ADHD, I have complex PTSD, I have the general anxiety disorder. I have borderline personality disordered traits. I have lots of traits.

00:12:31

Peta: Do you find having a diagnosis and labels helpful for me?

00:12:38

Pam: I've known for twenty years my psychiatrist, My psychiatrist and I looked at my son when he was in year nine, and he was bouncing off the walls. He was a bit like me. He was diagnosed with ADHD. So my psychiatrist said, well, Pame, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, and it doesn't fall from the father because he's very neurotypicult. And so I've known. But this year after disordered, I did for the first time. I didn't create an overseas charity. I didn't, you know, throw myself into different community projects. I actually sat with all of the emotions. I know how fortunate I am to have, you know, a great mental health team, but I sat with him, and they were dark and deep, and for six months I didn't know if I was going to come out of it. But when mel put me through this battery of different psychological tests and it came back as this, we both sweid with delight in her office, and thankfully nobody else was in the room because it might have been quite triggering. We squealed and I just jumped up and down, and all of a sudden made sense. How could people understand me, the true me? Number one? When it hadn't been invented? With the people in my past and number two, it's so extreme and it all just made sense and it was just sort of like, I'm not broken, Peter. I'm not broken. It's my very curious neurospicy pinging creative brain. And certainly, certainly, certainly a diagnosis for me was so important. But I know it's incredibly expensive for people to get diagnoses, and I think people know themselves as well, and I think the important thing is for people actually just you know, to get if they can get a diagnosis, get a diagnosis if they can't, do the research and look at what's going to work for you.

00:15:15

Peta: Particularly with your experience with the health services that you have interacted with throughout your life, how do you think health services could be more compassionate from your perspective.

00:15:27

Pam: I'm very open with my needs, Peter. If I go to my doctors and I'll just say I might cry while I'm talking to you, but that's okay because I've got an appointment, and they will say, are you okay, I'm going No, I'm not okay, but I'm here and I'm safe. I'm a big advocate for getting what I need from the mental health services, but also sometimes that doesn't work and sometimes. For example, when I was in the Melbourne Clinic, had to go into the Melbourne Clinic, I wanted to pretend it was a health spa because I didn't want to no it was an intensive psychiatric hospital. I just thought, I'm just going in for a little rest and reset, and I went up to the reception and then I said, oh, so I'm booking into the Melbourne Clinic health spa. And she said, we don't have a spa. There's no spas here. This is the Melbourne Clinic Psychiatric Intensive Hospital or whatever she said. And I said, could we just pretend it's a health spa please, And she said it's a psychiatric hospital. And I just said, you've just made me sad. I think if you go in and into the you know, into the different systems and say, you know what the best way to be my care is, that might be a start.

00:17:11

Peta: Your show talks a lot about sort of the miss Well, it's more than mishandling. I think it was atrocious. How you were help you know, treated by a lot of medical professionals throughout your history. How did you learn to regain trust because you've spoken about how you're well supported now, how did you go about finding the right people for you and making sure because it can be really difficult to allow to trust people.

00:17:40

Pam: Again, absolutly. The very first time I saw a psychiatrist because I wouldn't go to a psychiatrist because that meant I was really fucked in the head, and so I was so scared to go to him. And as soon as I went to him and I told him the medication I was on, he just said, no, that, no, you have to get off, that that is only really for men, and you're on such a high dose, no wonder you have suicide ideation, And he was kind and compassionate, and I just trusted him. I have done my research on what sort of therapy I need and whether it be schema therapy, whether it be trauma therapy, and then I've interviewed and used all the different networks. I don't know what it would be like if I couldn't advocate for myself. Peter, I have so much pain and compassion for the people that aren't able to advocate for themselves. I have been very fortunate in having the mental health support I have, and that's why, Peter, that's why I put it on Digital Friends for free. That's why I am my psychologists and I have developed a sixty plus page resource for self regulation and the polyvagal nervous system because we want people to have information about how they can, you know, self regulate.

00:19:32

Pam: I Will share a link that you can be on your podcast so that it's free for everyone to watch. You know, it's it's I think it's up to me in my stage of life to share what I can.

00:19:48

Peta: Let's talk about the book Five Fat Sausages. I love the title. Tell me about how you got to the title.

00:19:55

Pam: I started to write my book in twenty twenty, found a coach in New Zealand, Kathy Derek shout out, best coach ever, best publisher, and I invested in myself. I knew I had a story, and she said, you've got to have an itch. You've got to have an itch that you've got to scratch until the story's finished. And she said, what's your itch? And my itch was that if one person read this book and they didn't feel so alone, then it was worth it. And the title of five Fat Sausages comes from my beautiful friend Linz Wearing Burke. She would she would had no experience of lived mental health, and she would just go for Fox's sake. Pammy. She said, you're this and this and this, and listen, listen, listen all these compliments, this and listen, listen, listen, listen, listen this. And she said, say it with me FAC's sake. And I said I can't. I can't because I was married to a man who didn't like swearing and in the house. And I can't. Again and again I said, but I can say five fat sausages. So I would be saying singing five very very very fat sausages when I was cooking dinner, fat fat, fat, fat sausages, and I'd say fat sausages. And my son, you know, cute, cute as a button, would say, Mommy, are we having sausages? Okay? No chicken snitzle. One of your questions that you sent me, you know, how did you work out what was going to go in the book and what wasn't going to go in the book. I didn't do that. My editor did because I poured my heart and soul everything that needed to be said I said in that book in the first draft. There are still some chapters like I haven't read the book from start to finish yet I may never because I know the story I've got ADHD why I would I read it about myself. But I have read the chapter, especially about the alcohol chapter I thought I would never read. And I gave that to my book editor and just said, you know me. We'd been meeting once a week for five years. The last three years she didn't charge because I was giving her business advice and it was all quid pro quo, but also because I think she asked me as a friend, and I said, I can't you know, because when she asked me to read it again, it triggered something dark, and I, you know, my dad was an alcoholic. I was turning out just like my dad. I had such big, unresolved issues with my dad. I couldn't read it, so I just said, please, I trust you. So when I did read it only a few months ago, she's done a mighty fine job.

00:23:20

Peta: I do know that you've done a lot of charity work, particularly in Uganda, but talk to me about why you were so motivated to help other people. I think it's quite a common thing for disabled people because we know how important it is that we got help in the way that we got it to be able to live the lives that we can live. But talk to me about your charity work.

00:23:43

Pam: Mine wasn't quite as heart based as yours, Peter. I, Oh, I've got the fabulous ability of crying and talking at the same time. I created other charities around Australia and the Philippines and Uganda. And because I thought if I could save other people, because I couldn't save myself, because I couldn't have a voice, because I felt lost, and I felt if I could help others find themselves, then I might be worthy. Then I might be good enough.

00:24:33

Peta: You are good enough, You are worthy. I know you've heard this so many times, but I feel like I need to say it.

00:24:41

Pam: I am claiming I'm worthy. I am claiming I'm good enough. And it's only been really this year that I can claim that. But the young things these days, they said, I mixed a lot of young things and they went, oh my god, you haven't menty bee. Yeah, And I just thought, what a cute little name for something that's so devastating. But I love it now in communities that there's a big acceptance that like literally everyone is going to have a menty bee at some stage, and that it's not shameful. You don't have to hide. Your friends will be there if you're brave enough to share it. And one of the things that really helped me, Peter was I started to record myself and I played that to a friend and she just burst into tears because she hear what I couldn't hear, just how much pain was there. And then I listened to it and I started to feel compassion for that person that I'd never felt before, and I thought, I've moved a little bit forward.

00:26:22

Peta: What surprised you most about being in recovery after such a long period of depression.

00:26:28

Pam: Oh, the thing that surprised me the most is when, like Sarah Tina withdrawal number one, they don't tell you that when you start to feel better and you start to reduce your ssries. And I was on so many, Peter that the doctor used to the psychiatrist used to have to ring every six months to get this authorized script. But I'd heard of serotonin withdrawal syndrome. I started to have massive anxiety. I every muscle in my body ate, I couldn't see straight. I actually was delusional, and I was losing things, and I couldn't find them, and I thought I was going into early early Alzheimer's. Peter. I left the car running in the garage overnight because I forgot to turn it off. It wasn't the GP, it wasn't a psychiatrist, it wasn't a psychologist. It was a chemist who'd been going to all these years, who said, oh, how's a serotonin withdrawal or going bam? I said what? And then I looked it up. You know, suicide ideation is a side effect of coming off the fucking andidepressants. When you said having to feel better, you get all of these other side effects, and by jingos. When I went into my psychiatrist, didn't he get a serve? I said, what the fuck were you thinking? One month ago? From three hundred to zero? You know? How dare you? How dare you? And he said, I'm sure I told you. I said you look. I said, get your notes, get your notes, look through every single piece of you. Tell you show me whay you've written it that you told me, because I was furious, like he's retiring.

00:28:40

Peta: Well, is there anything that you wish people didn't ask you?

00:28:43

Pam: Yes, there's a number of those, Peter. First one is when I'm fit a little bit too joyful love one say have you taken your medication today? Second, the second one is, oh that sounds complex, I've you spoken to one of your therapists. And the third one is when somebody says how are you, I'll say, really, do you really want to know? Because if you really want to know, I'll tell you. Are you better? Are you better yet? Are you there yet? Yeah? Those sort of things.

00:29:33

Peta: Pam joy Wood, It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much.

00:29:36

Pam: Thank you, Peta something middle name Hooke.

00:29:42

Peta: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the I Can't Stand Podcast. If you enjoyed today's conversation, the best way you can support the show is by sharing it with a friend or posting about it on social media. And if you have a moment, leaving a rating and revi you helps more people find these stories. Don't forget. You can always send me an email I Can't Stand Podcast at gmail dot com, or you can follow me over on Instagram at Peterhook. I'll see you next week.

00:30:16

Peta: I would like to respectfully acknowledge the wondery and bunner wrong people of the call and nation of which I record the podcast today and I pay my respects to both elders past and present, along with and especially to those in the First Nation's communities who are disabled themselves.