Peta talks to Simone Eyles, the founder of Disinfluencer, a platform focused on improving disability representation in media and advertising. Simone shares her journey of creating opportunities for disabled talent to be authentically featured in campaigns, while also helping businesses and brands become more inclusive.
Connect with Simone:
Website: https://www.disinfluencer.co
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/disinfluencer.co/
Email: hello@disinfluencer.co
Connect with Peta:
Instagram: @petahooke
Email: icantstandpodcast@gmail.com
Episode Transcript:
Peta [00:00:02] Hello and welcome to the I Can't Stand podcast. The podcast answering our questions about what life is like when you have a disability. My name is Peta. I have cerebral palsy and I'm your host. This week I have Simone Eyles Simone is the founder of an organisation called Dis Influencer. Her goal, her mission is to improve representation for people with disabilities in all forms of media and also give disabled people the opportunity to be employed in this space mainly and equally. I loved this conversation with Simon, and I hope you do too. So without any further ado, let's get into it.
Simone [00:01:03] Hi, everyone. I'm Simon Iles and I'm the founder of Dis influencer.
Peta [00:01:08] Thank you so much for being here, Simone. I'm so excited to talk to you today. So let's start with the obvious question first. What is this influencer?
Simone [00:01:19] Disinfluencer is a website, a platform that helps businesses and brands be accessible and inclusive. So think talent, stock photos and Diversity, Inclusion training.
Peta [00:01:32] When you say stock photos, what are they?
Simone [00:01:35] Photos of people with disabilities doing their thing, enjoying their life at work, at play with their friends. We have very little representation in the media. There was just a huge gap and I thought, well, I started creating content for brands and I was making them and I'm equating stock photos or content library content that are brand agnostic. So any business or brand can have access to these beautiful, professional curated photos. To have people with disabilities represented across their businesses and brands. And on the flip side of that as a social enterprise. I also help people with disabilities who have a desire, a dream like their peers to be content creators or catwalk models or talent in TV commercials to to get upskilled and have those opportunities and be paid. Yes.
Peta [00:02:32] That old chestnut. Getting paid is so difficult. We'll touch on that later on in the episode. But I know many people will really relate to that, of how difficult it is to get paid when you're a disabled person. But first and foremost, representation, I'm sure we both agree is so important. And that's why what you're what you do at this influencer is so important. Because when I think of stock photos, particularly when I first started out of university and I was doing some marketing for a disability organisation, all the stock photos were just frankly ridiculous. They were either in a medical environment that, you know, didn't relate to what we, the organisation that I was part of, or there was a person in a many wheelchair on the sand in the beach. And for any of us who use a mobility aid, we know how ridiculous that photo is. And it just, you know, for me it would just illustrate the organisation was trying to represent disabled people, but it also just highlighted how much they did not understand.
Simone [00:03:41] Yeah, that's that. So what you said there is everything. I'd say the first thing was is why do people with disabilities, why do they have to be represented in a state of being cared for or being supported? That is one aspect of their life, even if it is something that they need. A lot of the kind of tokenistic person in a wheelchair is not representation. And I guess what I what I was saying before, what I've come to learn is sadly, that's all there is because that's all there is. Yet there's a yearning for more. So that's what this influencer is doing. And I obviously work with, you know, I work in the marketing and advertising space, but we're working with government organisations, we're working with advertising agencies, we're working with design as. People want to do stuff, but they don't know what to do, so they're doing nothing. So I hope I can empower them by removing that barrier of giving you access to these beautiful photos and give you some education to empower market your inclusion and accessibility in a positive way. People with disabilities are consumers they want to be marketed to like. That's kind of where I started with all this with my son. So I don't know why. It's like why it's a big deal. My Josh was actually born with a rare kidney disease and he's had a kidney transplant. So he was a very sick baby, like in hospital for years, kind of sick. He had nine months of haemodialysis when he was four years old before his transplant, which was a live Dana from my husband. He stabbed. When he was about six years old, he was diagnosed with his intellectual disability and autism. I'm a graphic designer by trade and I was working in marketing, so I've always been a creative and loved marketing. And so when Josh was diagnosed, like I didn't work for years, I've always had this yearning to have, you know, it was always really frustrated me how disability has been portrayed. The breaking point was I had this inkling and I tried a few things for so long to do something and I did. I didn't know what to do. I had this whisper in my my soul, I guess, and I ignored it for a very long time. And then it was in 2020, 2022. I'm Hannah Devonte. I'm sure you can remember called out Lizzo and Beyonce say full lyrics in one of their songs. And I. I kind of just had a moment where I got my phone out and I recorded a voice night which turned into a podcast. And then from that, I just went on this journey of, you know, that's how these influences started. And I. Inspired also by Josh, who is a tick tock creator, and he does all these really cool stuff on tick tock like your digits and you'll do animations. But he'll draw me these book and then he'll film me. These camera like to move to make the animation and then he'll make it. And I was just thinking like, he's quite tech savvy and it just kind of dawned on me, like when I was his age, like what I was doing and working and what he is doing. Probably that him coming to that age of getting a part time job, like what could he do? And I just thought, you know, I. Back to to this whisper. I felt I could create something as a creative for creatives to express themselves.
Peta [00:07:30] Well, that's an amazing story. And clearly you're such an ally for the disability community, for Josh in particular, because getting employed is super duper difficult even after having degrees and all these things. Disability really does impact employment. It's just a known fact. If someone sitting here as a creative person listening to this podcast and thinking, You know what, I've always wanted to be an influencer. I've always wanted to do something creative online. But, you know, I don't feel like anybody would relate to my experience or or I don't even know where to start. So how does your organisation help people like that?
Simone [00:08:18] So we have an academy. It will launch officially in December, which isn't that far away, where people with disabilities can come and they can learn online. We will have some online courses and then we'll have some supported kind of masterclasses and we'll do heaps of really cool stuff. In the creative space, you can create your own empire, you can have an Instagram account and you can start creating content and build up your profile and become an influencer. So there's there's more opportunities now. I know that sounds really easy, but within this influencer and our academy, we can support you with that and help you with training and upskilling and give you opportunities to learn and meet people and and develop your skills. I think there's a really big opportunity with self-employment for people with disabilities. Now, I don't say that lightly because I as a mom, have always struggled with isolation and loneliness, even as I work now. Like I'm sitting, I'll call it my icebox. It can be quite lonely. And that's why the online portal is really important because I want to have like a like a business. It will be a business group where we will have networking opportunities and opportunities to connect and have conversations and virtual networking and kind of connect with other people and learn things. So I think that's a really untapped opportunity for people with disabilities. And I guess my my mission is to take disability mainstream. And even though I'm kind of. I have a very strategic top down approach as I'm working and talking to the big brands. I feel like when we see disability represented in the media and we can remove a bit of that stigma and we can say it's okay if you don't. I like ask people, you know, if you're doing a marketing campaign, talk to people with disabilities. Like if you if those people had consulted like what you said, that kind of fight over someone on a beach in a wheelchair, if they had consulted with someone, they wouldn't have created that photo. But they're not consulting with anyone because they're scared and they're doing something thinking that they're doing something good. And they probably honestly felt it was awesome. But it's obviously, like you said, to the disability community, it's like, well, no one's ever going to do that. Like, it's not authentic. And that's the problem.
Peta [00:10:42] I totally agree with you. I think humanising disability and making people say that disabled people are human and people. And yes, disability is a big part of our lives, but we're also multifaceted and we're also all of us are very different. So, you know, we have different interests. Some of us are really nice. Some of us aren't that nice. You know, just like any other human. I think there's a lean centralisation that really needs to be worked out as well. And I think for me, I often get whiplash when I speak to friends or organisations that have had no influence by a disabled person before because disabled people and the disabled community or their allies are way over here in the future with, you know, don't I agree? If we accept it, we don't see it as a negative. We see it as a positive. And yet when we're trying to work with organisations their way back in the dark ages so it can be really difficult to advocate. It feels like you're like, I'm hitting my head against a brick wall. Some tugs feel like, Really, we're still at this level. Luigi There's so much education that needs to be done, as you say. But I also think. There's a balance between having that really authentic reflection as we all want. But organisations are so worried that they're going to be tokenistic or they're not going to do it right or they're going to get called out for something on social media. I would love to hear your opinion 100%.
Simone [00:12:21] That's and, and I guess how I approach that is, you know, I obviously don't have a disability. And I say to people that and this isn't my quote, it's Kelly's like, inclusion is like cheese. You can never have too much, but somebody is always better than none. And I kind of say that to people, too, to break that break the ice. Yeah. There's so much stuff you can do. It's like it never ends. But it's a it's a journey. It's not a destination. And by doing something is better than nothing. And by doing something and being having that co-creation and that lived experience in put at an early stage, I'm surprised by the appetite to learn. That's why I created my e-learning modules. Say we had a casting agent that wanted to do a TV, see of someone on a treadmill with a prosthetic, and I had to say to them, No, like a prosthetic leg is a $200,000 leg. People with a prosthetic leg don't get up and run on a treadmill. Like as a as a visual like that might look cool, but it's like you said, the people I know with prosthetics aren't running on treadmills. They're doing yoga or swimming. And I'm like, That's actually quite dangerous. If they were to fall and hurt themselves or hurt their prosthetic, it's not like they can just go to the shop and buy another one. And when I have this conversation with them, they'll actually mortified. And they apologised because they didn't think that that was a thing. And that's okay. That's okay. Because you wouldn't know that until someone points those things out. You know, there's other organisations like Shift 20 doing amazing work and Henry from Inclusive we made they've got the production crew that have some understanding of working with disability. Like it's not, it's not just like tokenistic and you might think it's cool that you're getting, you know, someone with a prosthetic or someone in a wheelchair in your ad, But I'm like, the real power is this person actually has this dream. They've had an experience and they've been paid and they've gone to work. And I'm like, That's something so many people take for granted, you know? And that's the power, not the end result. And they're actually shocked. And they're the conversations I keep having every day to little organisations, to governments, to big brands. And I won't stop having that conversation. And I feel like 1 in 5 people have a disability. It's a massive market. No one's marketing to them, No one's representing them. So when we can have that representation, we can shift how we see people with disability and hopefully that will filter in more than just, you know, TV commercials.
Peta [00:15:09] I feel like I'm preaching to the choir, which is just so lovely because disability representation is so important. But I'd love to hear your insights in and around where you think the representation is needed most. Now, of course, we, you know, we'd liked disability representation to be in every form of media and advertising because guess what? We're 1 in 5. And, you know, we touch everything with we're part of the community and that should be reflected. But are there particular gaps that you're really motivated to try and fix?
Simone [00:15:47] Yeah, there's a few. So obviously there's a lot of invisible disabilities. You know, if you're to look at my Josh, she looks like any other teenager, but there's a lot of complex care that goes on with his transplant. So we have the invisible aspect. And then I guess people with disabilities don't sit in silos. They belong to families, community groups, sporting groups, even their support groups and networks, the NDIS providers, the allied health supporters, their health care professionals. So having, you know, sticking one person in a TV ad that has a disability is a clear representation. Not that it's tokenistic, but it's like this. It's deeper than that. And I guess finally, the biggest thing I'm I'm working on is having disability as the hero of the creative. And what I mean by that is my said my Josh, for example, he eats meat pies every day. That's his safe feed. That's what he eats. He likes a brand. We will move heaven and earth to go by if there's a special edition of this product. Now, make pies at traditionally, I guess in maybe or marketing seen as the go to at the footy. My Josh doesn't go to the footy and I'm sure I've bought more meat pies than 10 million stadiums. It's a lot of meat pies I buy. So why, you know, imagine the creative and I'm not alone here. Back to you. A lot of kids that have safe feeds, having creative that speaks to that person as the hero of the creative when that day comes. My work is done. Not when we have like someone in the mix, but having the creative purely speaking of that person and their thing and then representing, you know, all the other mums and dads and family and people out there that are also cooking some ridiculous same feed, safe feed for their kid every night of the week. But that's how it is for us. And to have that as the hero creative. I think the first brand that does that. They will reap the rewards of that.
Peta [00:17:59] I would be quite intimidated to try and create stock photos that reflect the disabled life. I wouldn't even know where to start because it's such a nuanced experience with so many different elements. How did you go about starting those stock photos and how do you. Do you ever reflect inaccessibility or maybe idealism?
Simone [00:18:22] That's a really great question and to be honest, I have never thought about that because I photograph people. I'm actually working with people that dream of doing this work. So it's not like I'm conjuring up some false image. I've got these people, I've got these parents in my dreams that the kids love the camera and I love to show off and they've got a really fun personality. So we work with them and we do their headshots and build their portfolio. And then we put out casting calls. It's about giving our people with disabilities a paid work experience. Do hair and makeup get catering like we have a really cool, fun day. So it's about empowering them, giving them an opportunity, giving them money. And the by-product of that is we also create these incredible photos that go in our stock libraries.
Peta [00:19:16] For me, there's always a really big contradiction with this work, and it's so important. Don't get me wrong, but I often feel like marketing organisations can say, okay, we need to tick the multicultural box, we need to tick the disability box. They put people in an ad and think, we've done our job good. We're, you know, we can't be called out for, for not being inclusive. And yet they actually don't have anybody in those organisations that are working for them. Or if they are, they certainly aren't in positions of power where they can be heard and their opinions are put into business practices. I'd love to hear your opinion on either whether sometimes it feels like a little bit of a Band-Aid if it's not actually effective.
Simone [00:20:07] I agree. I agree 100%. And that's why I do the work I do because I think, you know, unfortunately, that's where we're at. But it's it's changing and the appetite is there. I think organisations would be surprised at how many people that do work, work for them that are parents or carers of someone with a disability as in their kids. So I think of my husband, for example, knowing his work knows what's going on with Josh. Now imagine if I did imagine if he felt comfortable to disclose that and there was initiatives where he was confident that that was embedded in their company culture. Imagine that. Hopefully they like thinking about, well, you know, how can we embed this email h.r. How can we have initiatives that support our staff and how do we ask our staff, you know, why aren't our staff disclosing that they carers until there's some bad thing happening and I feel like that is happening now and that's that's kind of when I work with people and have these conversations, I feel like I can leave quite confident that like my work is done and I'm leaving the building. But the conversation is still happening because the appetite is there on what? What else can we do? Know And they're not scared of and we don't know what to do. We'll do nothing. They're like, okay, well what can we do? And they start exploring that.
Peta [00:21:33] There is so much data around disability employment and the fact that we're really loyal, hardworking employees. And, you know, I'm really proud of particularly of how difficult life can be when you have a disability and how challenging these so many of us are so motivated to be employed. And going back to what you just said in around your husband not feeling comfortable to disclose about Josh's disability, it's like, well, there would also be people in his organisation that have hidden disabilities or not visible disabilities and how awful that they can't be truly themselves. And that's where I think marketing for businesses to be truly inclusive and use an organisation like this influencer is so important because yes, they're talking to the market and the consumer, the customer, but they're also talking to their employees. And it is a culture environment so important for businesses. It just seems so logical that they should take these steps to have more inclusive marketing because it'll have a flow on effect for the whole organisation.
Simone [00:22:47] Yeah. And and that's really interesting because when you b when we start talking about being inclusive, you know, and I want to use the cliché of a ramp, for example, like it actually benefits everyone. It just doesn't benefit the people with disabilities. It will benefit everyone in the organisation. And I believe when we can embrace the word disabled, we can ask people what support they need. But I feel like there's a lot of like all the disabled, we don't know what to do. People with disabilities know what support they need. They can adapt and overcome. They've done so much mental gymnastics even before the questions asked. But ask the person what support they need and they will be able to tell you and usually be able to, you know, do some magic to get the support they need. So you don't even have to worry about that. That's how, unfortunately, people with disabilities live. And that's why I think having these conversations is really important because people are still at the start. They're still not sure. They're scared to say the words that I do nothing where I'm like, I'm saying like, it's cool. Let's have a conversation, let's do it. And then we do. And then we do it and it's no big deal. And people like, we'll learn as hard or as scary as what I thought and happy days.
Peta [00:24:05] Thank you for listening to this week's episode. I hope you enjoyed it. And thank you, Simon, for your time. If you did enjoy this episode, could you please share it with a friend or shared on social media? It helps more people find the I Can't Stand podcast. Don't forget, you can always get in contact with me. My handle on Instagram is at @petahooke or you can send me an email over on I Can't Stand podcast. Andrew Malcolm, thank you so much for listening and until next week. Have a good one guys. Bye. I would like to respectfully acknowledge the Wurundjeri people and Bunurong people of the Kulin Nation of which I recalled the podcast today. And I pay my respects to both elders past and present, along with and especially to those in the First Nations communities who are disabled themselves.
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